A Boeing 377 Stratocruiser and Crew Resource Management

"ttyymmnn" (ttyymmnn) 08/19/2015 at 11:30 • Filed to: planelopnik

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A few days ago, I came across this photo of a Boeing 377 Stratocruiser and a Lockheed Constellation. I think it was taken in LA. It’s a great historical photo and, being the av geek that I am, I googled the Boeing’s registration and discovered that it had been involved in a fatal accident back in 1952. And that led me down the rabbit hole of Crew Resource Management. Here is the !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! from the Civil Aeronautics Board on the B377 incident:

The aircraft, on a flight from New York to Buenos Aires left the airport of Rio de Janeiro at 11:28 following an intermediate stop. A climb was started, as was cabin pressurization. At an altitude of about 12,000 feet and with a cabin pressure differential of 4.1 pounds per square inch, corresponding to a cabin altitude of about 2.000 feet, the purser heard a loud hissing noise at the cabin door. He went to the flight deck and stated to the captain, “We should depressurize because I think the door is open.” With the door warning light still on the flight engineer accompanied the purser to inspect the door. The flight engineer did not make a visual inspection through the door windows but placed his hand along the top edge of the door, whereupon the noise decreased. He then instructed the purser to place wet towels in that area to reduce the air leak and the noise. At this time the door handle was still not in the locked position, the flight engineer estimating that it was still about 25 degree from being in the horizontal position and the purser estimating it to be only about 19 degree from the vertical, or fully unlocked position. The purser then went aft in the cabin to procure towels. The flight engineer returned to his station and reported to the captain that the door seal was leaking but everything seemed normal. The captain elected to continue. The door warning light was still on. Within a minute or two the cabin door blew open. A woman passenger in seat No. 33, nearest the door, was blown out. The depressurization, of an explosive violence, caused damage throughout ‘the cabin, blowing loose ceiling panels and many sections of soundproofing and upholstery and tearing off the door of the ladies’ lavatory. Fog, caused by condensation at the lower pressure, temporarily filled the cabin. The aircraft was immediately turned back to Rio de Janeiro where it landed uneventfully at 12:13.

PROBABLE CAUSE: “(a) The flight engineer’s failure to recognize an unsafe condition of the cabin door despite three completely separate warnings of that condition; and (b) the captain’s action in continuing flight while pressurized despite the several warnings that the main cabin door was not properly locked.”

And that is why we have !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! (CRM) today. This particular incident didn’t precipitate the crew training program, but it is a vivid demonstration of the problems that can arise when crew members don’t work together, information is not properly transmitted among airline cockpit crew members, and the flight deck fails to respect the experience of the cabin crew.

Prior to the institution of CRM in the early 1980s, the captain reigned supreme on the aircraft. His was the final say, and many first officers or engineers, particularly if they were junior, were loath to speak up if they felt something was awry. And the cabin crew was looked down on as just so many waiters and waitresses, not the vital contributors to airline safety that they are today. The impetus to begin studying how flight deck and cabin crews interact first grew out of the devastating crash of two Boeing 747s at !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! in 1977, the worst disaster in airline history, and gained momentum after the crash of !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! the following year. In that crash, the flight deck crew of the McDonnell Douglas DC-8 became so absorbed with a problem with the landing gear that they failed to monitor the fuel level. The plane eventually ran out of fuel and crashed in a Portland, OR neighborhood, killing 10 passengers. Following the crash, United Airlines was the first major airline to implement CRM training in 1981.

And that CRM training paid off spectacularly in the Sioux City crash of 1989, when !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , a McDonnell Douglas DC-10, suffered complete hydarulic failure when the number 2 engine lost a turbine disc, severing all the hydraulic lines. Captain Al Haynes and his crew, including Dennis Fitch, a reserve pilot traveling on the flight, managed to bring the stricken airliner down with the loss of 111 of its passengers. But 185 passengers survived. There were a number of factors involved in the relatively low death toll, but Captain Haynes himself stated that good CRM played a vital role in the survival of so many passengers:

…the preparation that paid off for the crew was something … called Cockpit Resource Management… Up until 1980, we kind of worked on the concept that the captain was THE authority on the aircraft. What he said, goes. And we lost a few airplanes because of that. Sometimes the captain isn’t as smart as we thought he was. And we would listen to him, and do what he said, and we wouldn’t know what he’s talking about. And we had 103 years of flying experience there in the cockpit, trying to get that airplane on the ground, not one minute of which we had actually practised, any one of us. So why would I know more about getting that airplane on the ground under those conditions than the other three. So if I hadn’t used CRM, if we had not let everybody put their input in, it’s a cinch we wouldn’t have made it.

McMike > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 11:38

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And that is why we have (CRM) today

...and why they ask us to fasten our seat belts wile seated.

Jcarr > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 11:40

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A post about CRM with no mention of Eastern 401 ?

Ttyymmnn,

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 11:41

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The 377s are fascinating aircraft. I’ve wondered for some time what elements of the airframe permitted such a ready conversion from the B29’s single tube to the double-tube frame on the Stratofreighter/Stratocruiser, and then to the Guppy series, but whatever elements made it possible were probably in common with the Comet, which was adapted from single to double-tube the opposite direction (civ->mil rather than mil->civ) in the Nimrod platform.

Aside from the Curtiss Commando, I don’t know of any other double-tube cargo designs. I’m probably forgetting something, though.

ttyymmnn > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 11:42

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Can’t mention them all. I have learned that there is a limit to how much people will read around here.

ttyymmnn > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/19/2015 at 11:45

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I can’t think of any others off the top of my head either.

Jcarr > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 11:48

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Touché.

Kind of surprising that the FAA waited 5 years after 401 to take action on CRM.

ttyymmnn > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 11:51

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The biggest problem with the FAA is that they are tasked both with policing aviation and promoting it. All the NTSB can do is make recommendations. The FAA has to balance making aviation safe without pissing off (read: affecting the profits of) the airlines.

Jonathan Harper > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 12:24

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Interesting stuff. Good write-up, thanks.

Berang > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 12:32

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“Your only job is to make sure people don’t fall out of the airplane.”

Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 12:38

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Is this also the reason behind the flight attendants something something and cross-check?

Sneaky Pete > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 12:40

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Photo is actually Long Beach, CA. Not LA. Lakewood Blvd goes directly under the airport.

TechWeasel > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 12:48

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I dunno. I felt like it ended kind of abruptly. Feels like it could use a concluding paragraph about how you feel CRM could have prevented the B377 fatality. Hell, I’d like a deeper dive into why the flight engineer thought “stuff a rag into the door jamb” was an acceptable solution to a door that wasn’t completely locked!

ttyymmnn > Sneaky Pete 08/19/2015 at 14:13

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Thanks!

ttyymmnn > TechWeasel 08/19/2015 at 14:18

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I agree wholeheartedly. But until Gawker starts paying me to sit and write, I’ll have to limit myself to more cursory treatments of topics like this. Plus, I have learned that there is a limit to how much people are willing to read (generally). But what started out as posting a cool picture of a B377 morphed into something else I hadn’t intended, and I would have loved to go into detail about Tenerife, Eastern 402, Air France 447 (where effective CRM may have prevented the disaster), and others, but I simply don’t have the time. And I thought that Captain Haynes expressed it better than I could, so I let him have the last word.

ttyymmnn > Sneaky Pete 08/19/2015 at 14:23

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Hmmm. This site captions the photo:

A Pan American Airlines Stratocruiser maneuvering over the newly constructed Sepulveda Tunnel at LAX in 1953.

The site deserves more study, as it’s got some great historical photos covering the whole history of LAX.

Maxxuman > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 15:51

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Nice Connie!

Falutin Free > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 15:54

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“Incident”

49 CFR 830.2 Definitions

As used in this part the following words or phrases are defined as follows: Aircraft accident means an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight and all such persons have disembarked, and in which any person suffers death or serious injury, or in which the aircraft receives substantial damage.

Jimmy Joe Meeker > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 15:56

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That’s how the FDA does drugs and food and how the fed (although not government) does the banks. FEC trading, the FCC broadcasting.... So on and so forth throughout.

Maxxuman > McMike 08/19/2015 at 15:56

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That and severe unexpected turbulence.

MonkeePuzzle > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 15:57

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TO THE FRONT PAGE! *gawker media flicks ttymmnn a shiny nickel*

Jcarr > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:00

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Making the FP again! Nice work!

ttyymmnn > MonkeePuzzle 08/19/2015 at 16:00

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If they flicked me more nickels, I’d sit and write more articles.

ttyymmnn > Jimmy Joe Meeker 08/19/2015 at 16:01

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Lather, rinse, repeat.

ttyymmnn > Falutin Free 08/19/2015 at 16:02

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Good to know. Thanks.

ttyymmnn > Maxxuman 08/19/2015 at 16:03

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Indeed. Both aircraft are true icons of their era.

ttyymmnn > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 16:04

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Thanks. Had I known, I would have spent more time on this. TechWeasel’s critique was spot on, but I only have so much time, especially with the ongoing history posts.

Maxxuman > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:04

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It’s true about CRM but it’s also true that the Flight Engineer made a ridiculous error of judgement. He knew the door wasn’t fully locked but recommended they continue with wet towels placed around it and didn’t even recommend descending to an altitude where pressurisation wasn’t necessary. The Captain should also have known better of course.

JayHova > Maxxuman 08/19/2015 at 16:05

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Makes that 377 look like a dinosaur.

ttyymmnn > Maxxuman 08/19/2015 at 16:05

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Agreed. There were plenty of bad decisions to go around here.

Sjubbdubb > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:07

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Since it is so long ago, a wild speculation will not hurt anyone. So I’ll limp out and say that such incompetence might possibly be caused by a crew that isn’t a 100% where they should be, mentally. Which still is the case occasionally:

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-new…

Crowdfunder > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:07

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We’ll read about plane crashes and incidents all day long!

Daleo56 > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:08

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The Sepulveda Tunnel in 1953

G-Truck > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:08

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OCSaltyDog > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:09

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The Connie, F/P-80 Shooting Star, and the F-86 are among the best looking aircraft, ever. Connie is number 1, though.

Love My V8 Finder of Paths > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:10

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The picture reminds me of the old Stapleton Airport in Colorado. Runway goes right over I-70.

Maxxuman > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:10

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Here’s an article you may find interesting, if you haven’t already seen it:

http://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-…

Jcarr > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:10

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Eh, it’s a crapshoot for what gets shared anyway. My first FP share was this stupid thing that I literally thought of on the pot.

Lincoln Clown Car > RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht 08/19/2015 at 16:10

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I think in the case of the Nimrod the lower lobe isn’t pressurized since it’s just holding a bunch of sensors. Not sure about the 377, although I could see how the floor of the upper lobe might be what holds the joint between the two lobes together and keeps the “8” from turning into a “0”. It also probably wasn’t pressurized as highly as a modern jet since it had a lower ceiling. I bet the Super Guppy wasn’t pressurized at all.

ttyymmnn > G-Truck 08/19/2015 at 16:11

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Back when people used to stop and look at airplanes. Yesterday I went to see the IMAX movie Living in the Age of Airplanes. It wasn’t about airplanes so much as it was about how the airplane changed the world, but they opened with shots of a boneyard and the narrator, Harrison Ford, said that there are very few, if any people, alive today who lived when there were no airplanes. They have become so commonplace that we hardly notice them any more.

ttyymmnn > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 16:12

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Hey, I do some of my best thinking there.

bwwooster > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:15

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Facing north or south? It looks like south.

ttyymmnn > Maxxuman 08/19/2015 at 16:16

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I haven’t, but I remember the Dallas L-1011 crash clearly. Amid all the media hype over every accident, it’s hard for the general public to realize that commercial aviation is safer than it’s ever been. Except, perhaps, in Indonesia.

facw > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 16:18

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That Eastern Airlines livery was pretty sharp (except for the stupid Whisperliner branding):

ttyymmnn > bwwooster 08/19/2015 at 16:18

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You sound like you would have a better idea than me. I have no idea.

Jcarr > facw 08/19/2015 at 16:21

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Looks pretty good now, too.

Jcarr > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:23

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How was that? I want to see it, but no IMAX theaters near me. The trailer looked awesome.

west-coaster > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:24

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I can almost assure you that’s Sepulveda Boulevard, just north of the LAX tunnel. Lakewood in Long Beach looks similar, but different.

Boter > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:24

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Hopefully they do start paying you - while Foxtrot Alpha can sometimes be ASTOUNDINGLY long, it’s still really well done, and it’d be cool to see that kind of thing on the civilian side of aviation as well.

facw > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:25

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Given that the air cargo market has been hurt badly by the recession and bag fees have decreased the amount of luggage carried, I’ve wondered if airlines could make money squeezing seating into some of the hold, like in the 377. I guess the ceiling may not be high enough (most standard cargo containers are only 64” high).

Battery Tender Unnecessary > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:26

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Man!, Constellations were pretty.

'Stangy Leg > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:27

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Pretty sure this picture is from a GTA 5 mod

ttyymmnn > Boter 08/19/2015 at 16:27

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Thanks! If I got a check now and then, my wife wouldn’t mind (as much) that I spend so much time sitting at the computer. I’m a stay home dad, but I’ve still got to get my chores done!

ttyymmnn > west-coaster 08/19/2015 at 16:28

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I’m pretty sure it is. I found another site that ID’d the photo as early LAX.

ttyymmnn > Jcarr 08/19/2015 at 16:29

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It was fantastic. The music was done, both ironically and sadly, by James Horner. I was expecting more airplane, but I didn’t miss it. It’s really very, very well done. Even if you don’t see it on IMAX, I still recommend it.

For Sweden > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:29

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This picture is of Lakewood in Long Beach. The lead image of your post is the Sepulveda tunnel

Source: been to too many airports

ttyymmnn > For Sweden 08/19/2015 at 16:31

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I will gladly take your word for it. In case you missed where I posted this before, check out this link.

http://waterandpower.org/museum/Aviatio…

RamblinRover Luxury-Yacht > Lincoln Clown Car 08/19/2015 at 16:32

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Good points, all. You could be right on the whole Nimrod lower fuselage, and you’re almost certainly right for the part including the bomb bay. The 377 was built just like the Stratofreighter and B-29 forefather, with multiple stringer rings assembled in sectors, and that lends itself to converting into an “8” - just add a few special stringer sections to the ring, tie it to another 3/4 ring, and add a floor to band it together - voila. B-29 below.

Not like a modern fuselage at all. Nothing would really have been stopping them from making the Super Guppy possible to pressurize in theory, but expense would have been enormous along with weight. Given that not all sections of the B29 were pressurized (communication tunnel running most of the length), it wouldn’t surprise me if the Guppies were sectored off even if they had to be pressurized. Here’s a Stratofreighter, which should be the same as the -cruiser - but it’s hard to tell exactly what they’ve done:

Rick Cavaretti > Sneaky Pete 08/19/2015 at 16:32

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Hold on just a second. There’s an identical looking under runway passage at Van Nuys Airport, a suburb just north of downtown L.A. Sherman Way I believe.

FASTER345 > Sneaky Pete 08/19/2015 at 16:33

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Compare modern LAX (first pic) and Lakewood Blvd. (second pic). Both looking south.

facw > Battery Tender Unnecessary 08/19/2015 at 16:34

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Yep. Don’t let anyone tell you that Boeing didn’t know how to build a pretty airliner though:

Mattthecat > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:38

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That’s LAX, I drive through it all the time. Pacific Coast Highway (Sepulveda Blvd), looking north, almost under the 105 freeway.

https://www.google.com/maps/@33.93438…

ttyymmnn > Mattthecat 08/19/2015 at 16:39

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Thanks.

Maxxuman > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:40

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I think most people probably do realize it, but they mistakenly believe they’re in full control of their destiny when driving a car, but not on an aircraft.

67mgb > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 16:45

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The CRM demonstrated by the Flight Crew of UA Flight 232 is epic in the annals of aviation. All attempts to duplicate the success using similarly experienced flight crews in simulators resulted in failures i.e. non-survivable UFIT. Translation: A DC-10 cannot be flown without hydraulic pressure. But with the division of responsibility between minimal manual authority and throttle manipulation, this crew performed the impossible and lives were saved.

Sneaky Pete > FASTER345 08/19/2015 at 16:49

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It appears that I was incorrect, based on the geometry of the joint between the walls and the ceiling. Amazing how similar the two are. 

Timothy Burks > Battery Tender Unnecessary 08/19/2015 at 16:51

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Yes it is. In profile it has an almost dolphin shape which I think was intentional.

clear-prop > TechWeasel 08/19/2015 at 16:59

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Door seals leak all the time, and stuffing a wet towel against the seal is the standard method for dealing with it until the door seal can be fixed. A leaking seal, on a locked door, is just an annoying noise and not a danger.

It is unclear from the accident report snippet if the FE understood at the time that the door wasn’t fully locked, or if the handle position was only evaluated when talking with the investigators.

Enderxenocide23 > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 17:01

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Miss this bridge from Stapleton Intl.

ttyymmnn > 67mgb 08/19/2015 at 17:03

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I guess it also shows that simulators are only so good. I’m not a pilot, but I would have to think that there is something about actually being there and feeling the honest forces at work would make it “easier”, if such a thing were possible. The other day, I wrote about JAL 123 , a 747 that lost its vertical stabilizer and all hydraulics when the aft pressure bulkhead ruptured following a faulty repair. In that accident, the pilots were able to regain a measure of control using throttle inputs, and kept the plane in the air for 32 minutes. Four passengers survived the crash, but more may have also survived had the Japanese government made a more concerted effort to reach the crash site as quickly as possible.

ttyymmnn > Enderxenocide23 08/19/2015 at 17:05

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O’Hare’s got one too, and I rode under it many times when I was a kid. It was always exciting when we timed it such that a plane was going over.

Birddog > McMike 08/19/2015 at 17:07

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Ad_absurdum_per_aspera > TechWeasel 08/19/2015 at 17:08

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Sounds as though this both was and wasn’t really a CRM problem. These days, one would hope that cabin-crew reports of a problem would be taken more seriously and respectfully. However, dispatching one man from the cockpit to investigate the problem while the others continued flying is actually very CRM-compatible. (The ultimate in pre-CRM thinking would be for all of them to go look at the problem* — in the movie version that’s when the door would blow out and a passenger who’d flown Spitfires in the war would save the day).

In a modern cockpit, the flight engineer (well, more likely the first officer, since few airliners have that third seat anymore) would feel more empowered to stand up to the captain. Fundamentally, though, it sounds as though the flight engineer underestimated the likelihood and severity of the problem and implemented a bodgy solution — in fact not a solution to the real problem so much as a band-aid for a symptom — and reported that all was well. It’s hard for teamwork to overcome one crucial guy’s playing his position that way.

* A couple of crashes that I can think of offhand, probably more that I haven’t actually occurred in the US because the brain trust in the pointy end was all entirely occupie d with some problem and no one was tasked with noticing that the plane was losing altitude or running out of fuel or somesuch. That’s where, in my (mis)understanding, CRM was born.

fuscator > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 17:28

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Once in a while, a piece here takes me back decades. I once flew in a Stratocruiser, out of Paris, France. Upon descent for landing, it practically rained in the passenger cabin. Condensation?

shitheelandtoe > Smallbear wants a modern Syclone, local Maple Leafs spammer 08/19/2015 at 17:31

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That and arming the doors for automatic slide deployment, I believe.

shitheelandtoe > facw 08/19/2015 at 17:31

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Love that museum!

ttyymmnn > fuscator 08/19/2015 at 17:41

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Well, the 377 was retired in 1963, three years before I was born. So I have no idea what the water could have been, but yes, it was likely condensation. I don’t know enough about modern aircraft pressurization vs. what they were doing back in the ‘50s, but my guess is that the air is conditioned much better now than it was then. But that’s just a guess. Do you remember where you were flying to? Someplace particularly warm?

LyndonL > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 17:56

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I have the joy of being a CRM facilitator at my workplace amongst other things, and I like to use AF447 as one of our case studies. That whole thing is so full of “WTF” it boggles the mind. Aircraft are so automated these days that a good grasp of mode awareness is paramount.

ttyymmnn > LyndonL 08/19/2015 at 18:01

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I am not a pilot, but I like to think that I know at least a little bit about piloting, and I have always questioned the design mentality of Airbus with their sidestick. The fact that one pilot can make control inputs without any reflection in the stick of the other pilot just seems like a recipe for disaster, and perhaps it was. As a driver, I like having a wheel in my hands. It just seems to me that if you’re pointing something that big around the sky it would be a heck of a lot more intuitive to have a big wheel in your hands, and one that moves the same way on both sides of the cockpit.

Maxton86 > Sneaky Pete 08/19/2015 at 18:15

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Interesting. I could have sworn it was the old Stapleton Airport in Denver. Stapleton had a taxiway bridge that crossed over I-70 (since torn down when the airport closed.) It looked exactly like the photo.

Tohru > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:21

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You can’t mention CRM without talking about Charlie Victor Romeo. It’s on Netflix right now.

United 232 is one of the featured films in this movie.

jbwolfe > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:25

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I’ve got 8000+ hours in A320/A319’s and can make some observations about “sidesticks”:

-any simultaneous use of the two side sticks causes an aural alert “dual input” so the pilots know two people are trying to fly at the same time- a no-no.

-if both sidesticks are used simultaneously, the input is averaged (ie. one full up and one full down is neutral, likewise full left and full right is neutral.)

-one pilot can push the AP disconnect/takeover button and hold it for 30 seconds to lock out the other stick (in case of malfunction).

-AF447 had a significant loss of cockpit disipline regarding who was the flying pilot. In their defense, they were IMC and loaded up with multiple ECAMs. Nonetheless, training was cited as severely lacking in flying in degraded modes at high altitudes, as well as stall recovery.

-other than in nasty crosswinds, fly by wire is much more civilized.

-being able to cross one’s legs and eat meals on a tray table is “tha shizzles”

nic > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:26

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Thank you, a brief and informative post about a thing.

jbwolfe > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:29

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CRM, TEM, whatever it’s called can be summed up as “not who’s right, but what’s right”.

ttyymmnn > jbwolfe 08/19/2015 at 18:34

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Thank you very much for the information. Is there ever a point, though, where input averaging can be bad? Is there a situation where an aural alert could go unnoticed?

ttyymmnn > jbwolfe 08/19/2015 at 18:35

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Maybe I need to start using CRM with my three boys.

kraziek > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:48

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That looks like it is the Van Nuys Airport in LA

Amoore100 > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:50

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I remember once reading a book on the creation of the 747 and the author talked about how the 377s were basically the peak of radial engine performance and that from that point on no commercial airliner would have radials as powerful again, mainly because the engines were so stressed and improperly designed that overheating was common, and many caught fire...thus, the jet revolution was born...

AutoSavant > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 18:50

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This part gives me the chills. “ A woman passenger in seat No. 33, nearest the door, was blown out.”

ttyymmnn > AutoSavant 08/19/2015 at 18:54

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Yeah, I think that would pretty much suck.

Thanks. I’ll be here all week.

ttyymmnn > kraziek 08/19/2015 at 18:56

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Most everybody agrees, along with another site I found, that it’s the Sepulveda tunnel at LAX.

mike in So Cal > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 19:00

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CRM should be a thing in just about every line of work

Plecostomus is a starred commenter > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 19:09

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I’m gonna wager that the photo is of Daughtry Field aka Long Beach Airport and the cutaway is where it runs under the runway with Lakewood Boulevard

vacantserver > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 19:28

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Seeing the stratobruiser next to the Constellation is just... saddening. That’s the older version of First Class vs. Coach.

Dr. Strangegun > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 20:55

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Surprise skydiving!

Dr. Strangegun > shitheelandtoe 08/19/2015 at 20:57

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And plug doors. Plug doors open inwards, if they unlock while the cabin’s pressurized they just sit there... and you’d have to be able to deadlift a truck to get it open.

ttyymmnn > Dr. Strangegun 08/19/2015 at 21:07

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Indeed.

IRS4 > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 21:13

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VNY (Van Nuys, CA) Sherman Way overpass.

BTW, the place Norman Jean Baker was discovered, building RC drones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Nuys_…

Effef > Amoore100 08/19/2015 at 21:24

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They really weren’t all that stressed comparatively (low RPMs with huge props), they just werent very reliable because they were hugely complex for the amount of power they delivered. 28 individual cylinders, 46 spark plugs, early first generation power recovery turbines, no electronics based engine management to keep lean conditions in check, and they just failed. Its the nature of a reciprocating engine with that many failure points. Jets have far few real failure points.

burpbeepburp > ttyymmnn 08/19/2015 at 21:36

1

Seat 33 is the first inboard seat opposite the “Main Passenger Entrance” and aft just of the mid cabin curtain. The main deck and lower deck passenger entrance doors don’t seem to be plug type. You can see how far away the Ladys Dressing Room door would have flown. Rule one, always wear your seatbelt in flight.

Amoore100 > Effef 08/19/2015 at 21:37

0

Yeah, you just kind of put into words what I was trying to say! In a way though, it was overstressed designwise, as in this style of engine was never meant to be built to this extent, thus taking all of its basic principles to the limit...